JoshBirchFilms

Sony FS7 & Glidecam

26 posts in this topic

Hello All,

I have been noticing a lot on my footage lately with my FS7 with the Glidecam HD4000 that I am getting a lot of jitter/bobble - much like seen in this example:

Prior to using the FS7 I used the 5D Mark III and had no problem. so I am trying to establish the issue.

Could it be

1) It's just a lot heaver so causing arm shake - I don't think this is the problem as I'd say I'm fairly strong 

2) Using the Manfrotto Quick Release Plate with it?

4) Or because of the shape of the FS7, the top plate with the HD4000 isn't the best for it and perhaps the Devin Graham would be better.


Would much appreciate some advice and help, it's driving me nuts.


Regards,
Josh

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Hey Josh,

The link for the example is not displayed.

Do you have VR (Steady-shot) enabled?

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1 hour ago, Greg J said:

Hey Josh,

The link for the example is not displayed.

Do you have VR (Steady-shot) enabled?

Is that within the FS7 itself? I have IS on the lens...

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Yes, IS is usually in the lens, unless the FS7 has a stabilized sensor. Depending on the lens, there may be a switch on the lens or a software button in the camera's menu.

In my opinion, this looks like the VR is enabled. I've used a few cameras which displayed similar results when used on a Glidecam, turning off IS fixed the micro-jitter in my case. Try a test with VR off and see if the issue is present.

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10 hours ago, Greg J said:

Yes, IS is usually in the lens, unless the FS7 has a stabilized sensor. Depending on the lens, there may be a switch on the lens or a software button in the camera's menu.

In my opinion, this looks like the VR is enabled. I've used a few cameras which displayed similar results when used on a Glidecam, turning off IS fixed the micro-jitter in my case. Try a test with VR off and see if the issue is present.

So yeah just doubled checked and I am running the Canon 17-40mm which has now IS. Strangely though when I used to run my 5D Mark III with this lens I never had this issue. The microphone attachment on my FS7 is a touch loose, beginning to think this could be the problem....

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The microphone could be causing minor shaking in the image. Please correct me, but it sounds like you are adapting Canon Glass to the Sony FS7. Using an adapter may be cause communication problems resulting in the VR/IS not functioning correctly. Since the 5D Mark III and the lens communicate natively there should not be any issues. Based on the articles I've read about the Sony FS7, it's an awesome camera! There are reports of some incompatibilities with adapters or lenses. Borrow Lenses published some of the issues they discovered with Metabones adapters. Since we know the lenses works on your Canon, I would suggest testing the Fs7 with IS off. Do you have any native Sony Lens to test?

https://www.borrowlenses.com/blog/2015/08/sony-fs7-review/

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That does strike me as IS jitter also, but I'm curious to know for sure.  Was this ever resolved?

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So I never actually got round to fully sorting this problem.

My usual set up is Sony FS7, Metabones Speedbooster Ultra, Canon 17-40, Top handle, LCD screen and a Rode NTG2. This comes in below the recommended weight for the Glidecam HD-4000. I am still getting this Jitter problem, please see the below:

https://vimeo.com/176438796/78d76d4a79

Is anyone else struggling with this? The 17-40 does not have image stabilisation so it can't be that? I didn't realise Metabones adapters required updates so I am in the process of updating those, would it be something to do with that. 

Any help would be hugely appreciated.

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That is really weird that you have that jitter with a non-IS lens....  I hope you get this figured out.

By the way, those snow board shots where you went down the hill beside someone who was hitting the pump are INSANE!  Phenomenal glidecamming!  Did you stabilize those in post?

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11 hours ago, Thad Peterson said:

That is really weird that you have that jitter with a non-IS lens....  I hope you get this figured out.

By the way, those snow board shots where you went down the hill beside someone who was hitting the pump are INSANE!  Phenomenal glidecamming!  Did you stabilize those in post?

Yeah so frustrating! Doing my head in because I'm confident of my Glidecamming skills but something is going wrong. 

I'm going to run a few tests when I get a chance without the Manfrotto Quick Release Plate and see if that causes the problem.
Thanks for the props, they are just raw from the camera so no stabilisation in post. The only reason I tend to stabilise is to get rid of this jitter issue, so frustrating.

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Could it be a computer/rendering issue? Does it look like that on the timeline before you render? Did you try playing it on a monitor straight from the camera?

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JoshBirchFilmsYour Glidecam skills are excellent! I could definitely see the jitter in the first few clips. Since the lens does not have IS, I'll toss in a few more ideas/suggestions.

1. Have you tried other cameras with the glidecam to replicate the issue? This will help isolate the problem.

2. Have you checked the media cards on the FS7 to see if they are performing correctly? This may sound far fetched but a slow/defective card can cause unheard of issues, trust me it's happened.

3. I like mchurgin's suggestion of software rendering. Which software are you using to export the videos?

Can you share some additional information: Which focus mode(s) have you tried? Lens and lens adaptors? Camera output settings? Firmware version(s)?

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Thanks Greg!

1. I have an a7sii and I will see if that has the same issue with the same lenses.

2. Media cards are Sony XQD 128gb 400mbs, I highly doubt it would be them as they function really well.

3. I use Premier Pro, and yeah I can see the jitter when viewing it in Sony Catalyst browser before I even put them into Premier.

I think I am also going to try the FS7 without the Manfrotto Quick Release Plate and see if that makes any difference. Will also double check that all screws are absolutely tight (pretty sure they are though).

Always use Manual Focus Mode, my choice of lens for the Glidecam is Canon 17-40 F4.0 or maybe a Samyang Cine 24mm or 35mm. The lens adapter is a Metabones Speed Booster Ultra (I have just updated the software on this, perhaps that might have been causing the issue). My FS7 is entirely up to date. 

I'm actually away for the next weeks but will run some tests when I am back to see if the same issue occurs.

Thanks again

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Just got back from holiday today and ran some more tests and unfortunately still facing the same issue.

I had just updated my Metabones software prior to going away and thought this might be the cause of the issue, but sadly its not. I just can't seem to work out what is causing it.

My exact set up is as follows

Sony FS7, BP60 Battery, Top Handle, LCD screen, Rode NTG2 Microphone and Canon 17-40. When I weight this all it comes in below the weight limit for the HD4000. 

This is situated on a Manfrotto 501 Quick Release Plate.

There is absolutely no give in the Manfrotto Plate its solid, all the screws and everything on the Glidecam are really tight, the glidecam itself is properly balanced too.

The only place where there is a bit of give is the Microphone in it's shock mount, but can see this being the sole cause of the problem.

Am beginning to also question myself as well, because when holding it my hand is shaking ever so slightly.

Any further thoughts from anyone? Would the Devin Graham Signature Series be the next viable option?

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JoshBirchFilms, I will defer to the true experts if they have differing opinions from mine, but as much as I LOVE my Devin Graham glidecam, I don't think it will fix your issue.  Your jitter seems to be at too high of a frequency/small motion to be caused by instability in the glidecam.  Especially with as much weight as you have in your total rig...

Do you have a different camera you could put on for a test like a DSLR or something?  Have you tried to change your rendering setup to see if there's anything there?  I'm just at a loss I'm afraid since I was completely convinced it was stabilized lens jitter I was seeing.

Tom, Greg, got any more ideas?

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Did you try just hand holding and making similar moves to when its mounted on Glidecam. Compare the results to see if it is a camera/hardware issue.

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Good point mchurgin!  Kind of looked to me like the footage from that setup would be jittery even on a tripod.

Oh, and I just skimmed back through the thread and I see you did use this lens with a 5Diii.  Can we assume that was also on the HD4000?

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1.) Have you tried placing the setup on a tripod? It would be interesting to see if the issue remains.

2.) Start with a basic setup, keep adding components until the issue reappears. Process of elimination...

If the issue continues, I would contact Sony support and to investigate having the camera serviced. I honestly don't think a slightly ajar microphone or QR plate would cause this issue.

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Hey Guys,

I used my a7sii on the Glidecam HD4000 last weekend and didn't have the issue at all. I kept the QR plate on too.

Seems very strange why this is happening? Perhaps a service is in order?

I will give a try at adding the different components. I'll start with trying it with the microphone off, and see what that does for me? 

I'll also try both handheld, and on the tripod moving as I would with a Glidecam...

If not I am at a complete loss.

 

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Ran some more tests on a variety of different set ups and still getting the same issue. Take a look at the video below:

Seems the only way going forward is to get the Devin Graham Signature Series because I don't get the same problem with that!

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I don't remember if you tried, or if anyone asked, but did you put a different camera on the Glidecam to check the results. 

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21 hours ago, mchurgin said:

I don't remember if you tried, or if anyone asked, but did you put a different camera on the Glidecam to check the results. 

In the video there is some clips with the a7sii in there

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I did not notice the issue with the A7s Mark II or the FS7+DGS setup.

Edited by Greg J

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Can you please share a Photograph of your Glidecam HD-4000 setup, as you operate it?

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